site sift directory banned by google

edwin said: "maybe big tony is right....site-sift had a pr 8 2 days ago. they were buying all their links from o'reilly networks sites (see my other post) and they are now banned completely. google is quick to ban these days!"

raven said: "Whoa... Thanks for the info."

edwin said: "google is really fast to nuke sites these days!"

Heather said: "EEK! That isn't good.."

edwin said: "[quote] Another so-called Web Directory is indeed a directory, but the only content when you get to the bottom of each category is a set of Google Adsense advertisements for the category. (Question: if Google is opposed to this type of site, as many of those commenting on the issue claim, why is Google providing these ads?))[/quote] that's what the guy from o'reilly who he bought the ads from said about him two days ago....your could sort of guess he was doomed"

Darren said: "Yes, they've been targeting directories a lot more. I even lost Sootle for a month. The problem was sort of obvious for Site Sift. He bought incoming links from O'Reilly and sold footer sitewide links on un-related subjects. He also probably came up for manual review when hitting PageRank 8."

AngelaCea said: "Reciprocal link directories should all change to non-reciprocal link systems out of fear of being branded a link farm. If you run a directory, do not ask folks to link back, if you want to charge for bold or featured one way links (advertising) that is fine, just don't play the reciprocal link game or your directory will be dead :eek: Get rid of all mention of reciprocal PERIOD. Selling advertising is fine, but selling links is not so good!"

edwin said: "reciprocal links aren't against googles guidelines.. site-sift wasn't a recip directory"

AngelaCea said: "Are link farms :confused: Most reciprocal link directories are nothing more than link farms Edwin!! Were they selling PR Edwin or advertising links that would pass PR :confused:"

Neutron2k said: "can someone give me a defintion of a link farm in comparison to a recipricol links site?"

AngelaCea said: "A reciprical link directory is a sort of link farm, any site that trades PR by selling links from other pages with high PR is a link farm. Webmasters that run networks of 1,000's of pages and sell links from those pages are running link farms. Any scheme that "grows" links and buys, sells or trades them are a "link farm" just like a farmer that "grows" corn is a "corn farm". :o"

edwin said: "no way, no one on the internet would agree with that definition! an example of link farms are the old "free for all" links lists."

AngelaCea said: "These folks seem to agree Edwin :eek: [url]http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/L/link_farming.html[/url]"

edwin said: "according to their definition, every single website in the world with a recip directory is a link farm. good thing "webopedia" is useless"

Neutron2k said: "would it be more accurate to say that a link farm is a recipricol directory that lists hundreds of links that are not relevant to the sites content? or somthing to that effect?"

edwin said: "not necessarily...don't forget, recip links existed long before google became popular. people always did it to exchange traffic. in one way, recip links are the only traffic that dont come directly from search engines! i think that link farm definition is not used by search engines. they don't explain it clearly"

Darren said: "Link exchanges were definitely around before Google and they are not bad things."

AngelaCea said: "[QUOTE=edwin]according to their definition, every single website in the world with a recip directory is a link farm. good thing "webopedia" is useless[/QUOTE] Funny Edwin, you can disagree all you want but that does not change facts!! Google says to stay away from link schemes and link farms (a farm grows things) and directories are being devalued daily and removed from the index!!! If your sites are listed in a lot of reciprocal directories then your ass is grass, OK :confused:"

Neutron2k said: "i wonder how much google pays its employees to manually manually remove every site from its databases thats got a link in a link directory etc"

AngelaCea said: "Google has their people reading forums like this one to find scams and they pull out link selling schemes, in addition they have many webmasters who report link farm scams and all the rest of the link exchange schemes on a daily basis. PS: Since they are one of the best data mining companies in the world they also use data mining to find links that are suspect and those who link back to them. This data that is mined tells them a hell of a lot and they are able to act on it!!"

Neutron2k said: "expensive to by the sounds of it lol. Data mining is hard work. Cant rememeber much about it from uni, but our publishers publish all sorts of books on it."

Heather said: "You never want to get caught in a "bad neighborhood" that is for sure. I won't link with sites that have like 250 links on a page, or has 50 page long links page in the footer."

Neutron2k said: "i dont tend to sign up with any. bridg, are you a pink floyd fan? i just saw your location name :p"

raven said: "Site Sift got their PR back."

Bompa said: "[QUOTE=raven]Site Sift got their PR back.[/QUOTE] Hehehe, as I was reading thru this thread I was expecting the above to happen. This thread is a great example of how webmasters jump to conclusions. The problem is, the negative aspect of this thread, "don't reciprocal link" or don't have a directory of link pages, will stick in people's minds rather than the truth. This type of thing happens all the time in webmaster forums. I've even started to write some articles regarding Google Myths on my own site because of this phenomenom. oh well. Bompa (hi raven) :D"

Bompa said: "[QUOTE=Neutron2k]can someone give me a defintion of a link farm in comparison to a recipricol links site?[/QUOTE] Yes. A link farm is a [B]web site that provides set of link pages[/B] for it's members to upload to their site, each page is named for the category of link that it contains; business.html, shopping.html, dating.html, etc. etc. The set of web pages comes with an index.html page also, which serves as the directory page. Each webmaster that joins the link farm agrees to download the entire set of pages, (in zip format), every month or be excluded from next month's set of pages. Well, that's the original meaning. Nowadays it means anything and everything. It's like the term "spammy site". No one really can define spammy. Each person has their own idea of what it means. Anyways, Google doesn't mention "link farms" in their guidelines. They use terms even more vague like "bad neighborhoods", heh. Again, that is up to each person to define on their own. Google is just trying to scare you. Don't be bullied. Bompa"

Neutron2k said: "im not exactly worried. i dont provide recip links to any sites, except for other sites ive developed or friends sites etc. Btw, what is your website? wouldnt mind taking a look. :)"

raven said: "[QUOTE=Bompa] Bompa (hi raven) :D[/QUOTE] Hi Bompa! :)"

Darren said: "[QUOTE=Bompa]Hehehe, as I was reading thru this thread I was expecting the above to happen. This thread is a great example of how webmasters jump to conclusions. The problem is, the negative aspect of this thread, "don't reciprocal link" or don't have a directory of link pages, will stick in people's minds rather than the truth. (hi raven) :D[/QUOTE] My only message is don't buy high PR links from O'Reilly and then resell sitewide footer links to poker websites."

Neutron2k said: "i hate those poker site ads. they really wind me up and i get soo much spam from them."

Darren said: "Any industry that has a lot of spam in it usually makes a lot of people. Myself, I couldn't imagine sitting around playing online poker, but people do it all the time. The thing about a poker site though, is it's off-topic to tech sites. Google is spending a lot of time these days to detect link "spam"."

Neutron2k said: "... and rightly so. the sooner a method of preventing spam is developed, everyone has to do what they can to stop them getting any business"

AngelaCea said: "I guess you guys missed the fact that reciprocal link directories are now being devalued in a big way, also directories like Blue Find and others that sell PR (they got killed for selling PR). Maybe you forgot about the "Search King Lawsuit" against Google that they lost after Google took all their PR away for selling links on high PR pages! There are so many scam directories now and webmasters that submit to targeted directories (those targeted by the engines as link farms) are hurting themselves more than helping themselves and webmasters that submit to thousands of these directories will find their sites getting banned. It is not sound SEO to submit to thousands of these ADSENSE scam directories (directories created just to make Adsense money) just to get backlinks. Wake up people, I have number 1 SERP's in Yahoo and Google without submitting to thousands of directories in MANY keywords."

AngelaCea said: "[QUOTE=Bompa]Yes. A link farm is a [B]web site that provides set of link pages[/B] for it's members to upload to their site, each page is named for the category of link that it contains; business.html, shopping.html, dating.html, etc. etc. The set of web pages comes with an index.html page also, which serves as the directory page. Each webmaster that joins the link farm agrees to download the entire set of pages, (in zip format), every month or be excluded from next month's set of pages. Well, that's the original meaning. Nowadays it means anything and everything. It's like the term "spammy site". No one really can define spammy. Each person has their own idea of what it means. Anyways, Google doesn't mention "link farms" in their guidelines. They use terms even more vague like "bad neighborhoods", heh. Again, that is up to each person to define on their own. Google is just trying to scare you. Don't be bullied. Bompa[/QUOTE] These guys seem to think you are quite wrong about your link farm opinion!! [url]http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/L/link_farming.html[/url] (1) The process of exchanging reciprocal links with Web sites in order to increase search engine optimization. The idea behind link farming is to increase the number of sites that link to yours because search engines such as Google rank sites according to, among other things, the quality and quantity of sites that link to yours. In theory, the more sites that link to yours, the higher your ranking in the search engine results will be because the more links indicate a higher level of popularity among users of the Internet. However, search engines such as Google consider link farming as a form of spam and have been implementing procedures to banish sites that participate in link farming, so the term link farming has garnered negative connotations across the Internet. There are many service providers who promise to help you boost your link popularity by automatically entering you into link exchange programs they operate, often linking your page with Web sites that have nothing to do with your content. But users should be aware of the repercussions of this action as the major search engines penalize sites that participate in link farming, thereby reversing their intended effect. A link farm is a Web page that is nothing more than a page of links to other sites. PS: I know Edwin, Webopedia is dumb but you are smart :eek: :p :D"

Bompa said: "[QUOTE=web-mastery]My only message is don't buy high PR links from O'Reilly and then resell sitewide footer links to poker websites.[/QUOTE] Hi Web-mastery, Why not? What exactly is the danger in that business opportunity? Bompa"

Bompa said: "Hi AnthonyCea Yes, I was giving the definition of "link farm" of three years ago and more. Today the meaning has changed because people over use the term. [QUOTE=AnthonyCea]These guys seem to think you are quite wrong about your link farm opinion!! [url]http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/L/link_farming.html[/url] (1) The process of exchanging reciprocal links with Web sites in order to increase search engine optimization...[snipped][/quote] Do you believe that is a valid definition of "link farm"? Aren't we all exchanging reciprocal links in order to increase our SEO? [quote]...A link farm is a Web page that is nothing more than a page of links to other sites.[/QUOTE] Oh yah? I guess every search engine results page is therefore a link farm. I guess DMOZ, the most respected directory on the net, is a link farm on every one of it's hundreds and hundreds of pages. I guess that means Gimpsy's pages are all link farms. And every web site that has a "links" page or "resources" page is also a link farm. I think webpedia is quite wrong about "link farm". What do you think? Bompa"

Neutron2k said: "there is a difference between search engine results/directories and a list of recip links /link farms. those results are returned from a database SEARCH, they are not static html pages and don't count as the same thing. Thats also because the search engines wont be able to crawl another search engines results because the spiders do not fill in the search fields. So no, their not link farms."

AngelaCea said: "Gimpsy & DMOZ do not offer reciprocal links, nor do they promote link exchanges via automation. There are many forms of link farms, a farm grows or manufactures something, link farms manufacture links, it is as simple as that. Link brokers that sell links from a large network of pages over and over to anyone based on the pages PR are link farmers!!!"

Bompa said: "Anthony and Neutron, I agree with most of what you're saying. I was just criticizing webpedia's statement... "A link farm is a Web page that is nothing more than a page of links to other sites." cheers, Bompa"

Neutron2k said: "sorry bud, i didnt read the article. That statement is quite a bit off."

tracepeople said: "no that's a link page, isn't it? A link farm is a scheme/program that allows the spamming of links onto your webpage (using that php code) or sells links to the highest bidder."

Darren said: "[QUOTE=Bompa]Hi Web-mastery, Why not? What exactly is the danger in that business opportunity? Bompa[/QUOTE] Read this [url="http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2005/08/search_engine_s_2.html"]blog and the comments[/url] This is the origin of the Site-Sift banning, and Cutts from Google has comments concerning link purchasing. You can also view his [url="http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/"]blog[/url] for even more views. Basically, Google is going after off-topic links."

Bompa said: "[QUOTE=web-mastery]Read this [url="http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2005/08/search_engine_s_2.html"]blog and the comments[/url] This is the origin of the Site-Sift banning, and Cutts from Google has comments concerning link purchasing. You can also view his [url="http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/"]blog[/url] for even more views. Basically, Google is going after off-topic links.[/QUOTE] Site-sift has a PR8 and is in no way banned, nor were they ever banned that I know of. I read the blog and most comments, (especially matt cutts'), but I really did not see any evidence that "Google is going after off-topic links". It sounds like you are suggesting that Google has made the decision that O'Reilly readers don't play poker, don't smoke Cuban cigars, and don't ever need a hotel, therefore, Google will demote, discount, or ban any O'Reilly pages that have a link to a poker site, etc. etc. (paid for, not paid for, or owned by O'Reilly, makes no difference) I wonder what part of that blog makes you feel so strongly that Google has decided to take this action? In case you're thinking of giving us more web pages to read :) It would help us more if you could provide some exact quotes that have influenced you. Thanks, Bompa"

AngelaCea said: "Bompa it looks like your link exchange site is exactly what a link farm is :o So I can understand your resistance to any idea of a reciprocal link exchange being classified as a "link farm" :o We are here to make webmasters aware of current trends, you can believe what ever you wish, but many are now aware that reciprocal linking schemes and reciprocal link directories might be a danger down the road for webmasters to get involved with. I am telling all directory publishers to drop all references to reciprocal links and the mention of them so their directories are not devalued by the search engines and so they do not hurt those who are linked within. In life we all take chances, any move you make in business is a risk, we are here to warn webmasters of possible risk. It is as simple as that! If you want to promote linking programs that is your business, just don't get mad if some of us are not receptive to them! We do welcome you to the forum, but just because you are a member here does not mean we will always agree."

Bompa said: "[QUOTE=AnthonyCea]I guess you guys missed the fact that reciprocal link directories are now being devalued in a big way, also directories like Blue Find and others that sell PR (they got killed for selling PR).[/quote] I sure missed that. [quote]Wake up people, I have number 1 SERP's in Yahoo and Google without submitting to thousands of directories in MANY keywords.[/QUOTE] Good job. What sites and what keywords are you #1 with? Bompa"

Bompa said: "[QUOTE=AnthonyCea]Selling advertising is fine, but selling links is not so good![/QUOTE] "...webmasters, you can add your advertising link to this page for $50.00 per year. Link ads are limited to 200 characters of text plus your URL link..." Don't you sell links on your site? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you Anthony. Bompa"

AngelaCea said: "So if some one wants to buy an ad to sell their website that is the same as running a reciprocal link exchange, an automated link co-op exchange or a reciprocal link directory :confused: If I buy an ad here from Web Mastery is that a link farm activity?"

Darren said: "[QUOTE=Bompa]Site-sift has a PR8 and is in no way banned, nor were they ever banned that I know of. [/QUOTE] Yes, Site-Sift was very definitely banned by Google. This thread was posted at the time it happened. Here's a [url="http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=330168&postcount=8"]direct quote from the owner[/url] [quote] his worked for me. [img]http://forums.digitalpoint.com/images/smilies/smile.gif[/img] My site [url="http://www.site-sift.com/"]Site-Sift Web Directory[/url] was banned back on Aug 24 and I followed Matt's advice on his blog and yesterday it was back in the Google index. [img]http://forums.digitalpoint.com/images/smilies/smile.gif[/img] This shows that Google is working harder to help webmasters out. [b]WAY TO GO GOOGLE![/quote] [/b]There he is getting all excited when he got back in. The one notable change in his website is that he removed his "footer advertising", which, after all, is designed not to drive visitors, but to increase link popularity."

Bompa said: "[QUOTE=web-mastery]Yes, Site-Sift was very definitely banned by Google. This thread was posted at the time it happened. Here's a [url="http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=330168&postcount=8"]direct quote from the owner[/url] [/b]There he is getting all excited when he got back in. The one notable change in his website is that he removed his "footer advertising", which, after all, is designed not to drive visitors, but to increase link popularity.[/QUOTE] Ok, thanks for setting me straight on that one. Bompa"

AngelaCea said: "You mean that the directory was banned for having the DP co-op ads in the footer?"

edwin said: "recip links will not get you in any trouble from what i've seen. recip links are a good, honest, and fair way to get search engine exposure without spending a lot of money."

AngelaCea said: "So you trade a link with a few link farms and that is good to you, right Edwin :confused:"

Neutron2k said: "he means normal standard recips with other sites youve built, or sites with meaningful related content. recip links with a link farm would make you part of the link farm and youd be done."

edwin said: "that is correct neutron2k...good old fashioned recips is why i make money...i spend nothing on marketing and bring in $2k monthly"

Neutron2k said: "I think you should develop a website for us to see edwin if we cannot see you other ones due to illicit content :) that way we can see how good you really are :)"